By John Moxey
Firstly thank you for agreeing to an interview with Songstuff.
Thanks for asking. We're big fans of Songstuff because of the great articles and community it attracts.
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| Danny Arena | Sara Light |
When you were both at Rutgers University in New Jersey, did you have a career plan? If so how have your respective careers measured up against your plans?
My hope was always to be a songwriter from the time I was in high school. But my father wanted me to have a more obvious career path. So I ended up getting a Bachelor's in both music and computer science. I mostly got my Masters degree because I wanted to teach at the college level. But songwriting was always on the radar screen for me. On the other hand, Sara hadn't written a song in her life until after we were engaged...I was struggling to finish the lyric to our wedding song. She got annoyed that I wasn't inspired enough by her to finish it and finished it herself. The rest they say is history.
Did you see yourself more as a songwriter or performer, or the other way round? Was there a change of opinion?
Although I play out occasionally, I've never been a performer really. But I've always loved songs and have followed songwriters since I was a teenager. A lot of the writers I admired too like Barry Mann, Marvin Hamlisch, Michel Legrand and Michael Masser weren't performers either...I think I tended to gravitate towards their work.
What was your first songwriting success?
Well, this is a small one, my very first...when I was 18, I came in 3rd in the Music City Song Festival Contest. I even blew up the $50 check and certificate and hung it up in my room. Interestingly enough, some twenty years later, that same song with a slightly revised lyric landed on Broadway in the stage version of "Urban Cowboy, the Musical" (not because it won the contest ;-)
What gave you the idea for SongU.com?
My wife, Sara Light, and I have always been teachers (Sara comes from a teaching family). I've been teaching at colleges since I finished graduate school and still hold a position as Associate Professor at a local college. In the past 5 years, I've focused a lot on distance education and helped develop the Online College system for the state of Tennessee. At the same time Sara and I also taught songwriting courses locally in Nashville and had a small website that listed the dates/times of the upcoming courses. We started getting inquires from people all around the world from songwriters who wanted to take the courses but didn't live in Nashville. So we thought it would be a cool idea to put up a site that used the same distance education technology I already knew and apply it to songwriters; giving them an opportunity to take courses long distance, co-write with other writers from around the world and pitch their songs from the comfort of their own home.
What do you think are the main differences that formal training in songwriting gives to songwriters?
We're not talking about formal music training that you'd learn in a conservatory. But there is a misconception among some songwriters that writing comes solely from inspiration. Yet, I have never spoken to a professional songwriter in any genre that has told me they feel that way. In fact, I often refer to the quote attributed to Janice Ian that says, “inspiration is great, but craft will save your ass." SongU.com courses focus on the craft of songwriting. Songs can be studied and analyzed for the lyrical and musical elements that make it successful. To use a simple analogy, suppose that you are a carpenter with only a hammer, a wrench and a saw in your toolbox. Your resources and experience are limited; therefore your outcome will probably not be as successful as a carpenter who has ten times as many tools. Learning the elements of the craft of songwriting is like adding tools to your toolbox. The more you know, the more chance you will have of creating a successful outcome. The “success" varies of course depending on why you're writing and for what market, but it's empowering to know what options you have. If you truly understand the decisions you are making and how a well-crafted song is put together, you have an advantage. Hopefully, this will help you repeat what is working well, and avoid what is not working. In our case, it gave us the knowledge base to successfully write for different genres from commercial country to a Broadway musical. We were even asked by a hit urban music songwriter/producer, who had stumbled upon SongU.com to give him feedback on a book he was writing for young hip-hop, R&B and rap songwriters. He eventually asked Sara to help him co-write the book. Finally, a surprising bonus of studying songwriting is the connections you can make. We've had countless students hook-up to collaborate after meeting each other in class. We've even had some faculty members go above and beyond the call of duty to connect students with publishers, producers and artists that they otherwise wouldn't have met.
Sara, what are the main things you took from your time as NSAI membership director?
Working at NSAI gave me a unique vantage point to observe songwriters who continually met their goals, as well as those who didn't. Basically, I was able to see that being polite, networking, and using consistent effort (as opposed to short bursts of “pedal to the metal" effort) were key ingredients to progressing in a very competitive industry. I was also able to watch how professional songwriters might have a hit song one year and be on top of the world, but not have another big hit for a long time. Even the pros had to cope with failure and rejection on a constant basis and push on in spite of it. The songwriters who stuck around clearly loved writing above all and never became too cynical about the business. Also, I learned that everyone has their own journey, but there is room for everyone to be successful if they just follow their own path.
Why do you thing SongU.com has been so successful?
We have a great community of members who've helped make SongU.com feel like a small neighborhood filled with family and friends. Sara, and I do try to foster that by focusing on individual members and paying attention to what they're asking for, as well as what is in their best interest. But the camaraderie and the talent among the group has gone far beyond our initial expectations. In addition, our third partner, Martin Bell, and myself do all the programming and techie stuff, so it allows us to respond to suggestions and member needs very quickly and in the most cost-effective way.
Becoming a professional songwriter is an aspiration of many musicians. What do you think makes the difference between talented amateur and professional songwriters?
I think there are a few different ingredients that make the difference between someone having commercial success as a writer and not having it. One is that professional songwriters never stop learning or think they know it all. The most successful songwriters and musicians I know are also the most humble. Many years ago when I gave my first music talk on songwriting, Chet Atkins attended and participated. So continuing to grow and study in your craft is a big part of it. The other part is simply perseverance and determination. Hall of fame songwriter, Rory Bourke, told me a long time ago that if you're not getting rejected every day, you're not doing your job. He's right. You might have to weed through thousands of rejections to get one "yes", but each rejection just puts you one closer to that "yes". The last ingredient is the intangible luck. You have to have the right song in the right hands of the right artist at the right time. And all the stars have to line up. When Sara's song, "Home To You" was pitched to A&R, the plugger was told to not play any ballads (he played it anyway). The A&R person liked it enough to send it to John Michael Montgomery. The subject matter struck a chord with him because he was on the road away from his wife who was pregnant with their second child and he missed being home. He then put the song in a drawer for a couple weeks before pulling it out to play for his wife and asked her, "do you think I should record this one?" Fortunately she loved the song too. But there were so many opportunities for it to not have worked out the way it did. That's the intangible. You can write a great song, but other than trying to get it heard, you really can't control the outcome after that.
For you, what are the pros and cons of being a staff writer?
The nice thing about being a staffwriter is having a company behind you and the support that comes with that. They can pay for demos, pitch songs, connect you with co-writers and help you pay your bills with a small salary or draw. But that being said, it's not a requirement to have a staffwriting deal to be taken seriously as a writer these days. There are so many other outlets now and alternative routes to getting yourself noticed and getting your songs heard. Writers can hire independent pluggers or take advantage of pitching opportunities like SongU.com or other sites provide. A rep from MTV found one of our members on her website and signed several of her songs for use in MTV shows. This past week, four of our members signed single song agreements with an R&B/Hip-Hop producer in LA that we had listed as a pitch opportunity. It's still hard to have commercial success as a writer, but you have a lot more options available to you now than ever before.
How important have your awards and award nominations been to you?
They're not really...just dust collectors in the office ;-) In some respect, it's fun to be recognized by your peers. It was really cool the year we were up for a Tony Award because two of the other nominees included Michel Legrand (one of my longtime idols) and Billy Joel. That was neat. The actual awards don't come close to matching the great feeling of finishing a new song. Or finding out that someone thought enough of your song to choose it as their wedding song. Reaching people and knowing your song made a difference to them is what it's all about. You can't beat that.
Are you both still active songwriters?
Yes, though between running SongU.com and being parents of a three-year old girl, Mia keeps us on our toes. We'd really love to work on another Broadway show in the future, but time is always an issue.
What is your proudest professional achievement so far?
When Sarah Jessica Parker said my name on TV during the Tony Awards was pretty cool...but probably my proudest moment was when a student of ours was at the same ASCAP awards dinner as were because she had won the "Lilith Fair Songwriting Competition" with a song that came through a class that Sara and I were teaching. Mary-Chapin Carpenter read her a personal note from Sarah McLachlan. We were the proud teachers and it was great to have played some small part in that happening.
Can you give any advice to those who are at the begining of their professional songwriting career?
Plan for a marathon. If you plan for the 100-yard dash, you'll run out of steam long before you can reach the finish line.
Do you think songwriting competitions are a useful to songwriters?
I think they're good in terms of boosting your own confidence if you win and they might possibly connect you too -- you never know. When I was 18, I came in 3rd in the Music City Song Festival Contest. It only took about 20 years for something to happen to it when it landed us the gig writing for the stage version of "Urban Cowboy." One caveat is that you do have to be sure to research the song contests and find the ones that are legitimate. But in terms of putting your song out there -- it's just another means of getting your song heard.
What are your plans for 2006?
We just finished adding virtual writer's rooms to SongU.com and implementing new "street pitch" opportunities where our members can get their songs into the hands of the decision makers. We're also looking to add more courses and new faculty in R&B and CCM to SongU.com. There's never a lack of things to do -- usually just a lack of time ;-)
Is there anything else you would like to share with our readers?
The only reason to write songs is because you love it. This business is so difficult that if you're not in it because you love it, you'll end up becoming bitter or quit. If you love it, you'll be able to ride out the downs and hopefully see some of the highs that go along with it.
Good luck for the coming year and thank you for taking part in this interview.
Thanks for having us John. We wish you and everyone the best at Songstuff.com and we hope we'll see some of your readers "on campus" (as we like to say) at SongU.comin the future.
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About John Moxey
John Moxey started Songstuff in 2000 and is an active songwriter and musician as well as a regular Songstuff author of music and music technology related articles and member of the site crew.
John started playing his first instrument (piano) in 1971, and has been writing songs since 1979. He began playing his now main instrument, the guitar, in 1982. In 1986 he finished training as a studio engineer and in 1997 obtained an Honours Degree in Electronics and Music from the University of Glasgow.
John now plays several other instruments including mandolin, violin, bagpipes, didgeridoo, bodhran, and vocals.
John has a broad range of performance experience from choirs and orchestras to pipe bands. He has sung for, played in and written for various bands, and produced songs across a number of genres.
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